3rd day Off 8mgs; when does withdrawal start?

standard initial dosage of Elavil for insomnia is 50 - 100 mg. I have a PDR.
good night

You're doing fine. I wouldn't worry so much about the Klonopin just yet since you are still in acute phase. Just try not to take them every nite. It takes some consistant usage to develop a dependence. Hope you slept well with Elivil. I know how important sleep is for you now.

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The bad symptoms are going to peak at some point, and unfortunately it's kind of impossible to tell when. However, the good thing is you keep getting closer and closer to that point. Face facts, your going to have to do this one day in your life, you doing it now, so you might as well not waste the last 8 days by going back on the Subs for a moment of relief. Do anything not to go back!!! Take something to make you sleepy!!! Find a jacuzzi for the muscle aches....go to your doctor and get something to help with the withdrawal...one time a doc gave me a few phenobarbital's, they helped, or better yet get a prescription for some clonidine, which is a very safe blood-pressure pill that helps withdrawal a whole lot. Do you have a spouse/friend/family member there helping you? Do something not to go back to the sub. (But if you absolutely have to, it's not a big giant deal. It takes most people a bunch of tries, I think.)
JD

I agree, that if at all possible you can stay off the Sub (if that's what you want to do) that is the best course. You really don't want to "waste" the past days. In your case, you already have swam at least half way across the lake. There is no way that you want to turn around and return to the shore that you left from. Keep swimming the rest of the way!

Now, having said that, I have a few other thoughts and suggestions:

1. If nothing else, and you feel that you just can't stand it and "have" to take some Suboxone, make it the tiniest sliver that you can. You may not need more than a shaving of a pill to do the trick. Don't go back to 2 MG or something like that. Just a spec.

2. Clonidine would be a much better idea. If you can get that, it should really help with the withdrawal and will keep you away from going back to the Sub.

3. If you think you are going to "relapse" to anything, "relapse" back to the Sub. Don't, don't, don't let yourself go back to the "real" opiates again.

4. Now that you are this far, unless you are risking relapse, it's likely best that you push forward. For all of the others out there, I think this is a really good example of why you may want to try to wean down just as far and as slow as you can in order to avoid all of this. Have the Clonidine and perhaps some herbal sleep aids, or whatever, available to help you. I don't want this experience to needlessly scare others. It's always going to be a struggle to stop Sub but if you do it from a small, small dose, it won't be this bad.

5. You certainly are dedicated to your goal. It's amazing that you have stayed focused and kept on course with your plan. You should really be proud of yourself for getting this far. That is really something!

Best of luck and keep going!

Hang in there and follow Donh's advice. I think you are past halfway of the worst part. There are plenty of people pulling for you and after you make it... you will be someone who can help others with your own experience.

Payton - Sorry you're having a rough time. I was afraid this would happen to you, but hoping it wouldn't. You are being so strong though. You should be proud of yourself. Withdrawals are so difficult! Unless one has been through it personally, they have no idea!!
I agree with all the advice you've been given - donh says it well - if you're at risk of relapse, relapse to Suboxone!! If your suffering becomes more than you can bear, please try not to feel too much shame if you need to go back to Sub. Try just a sliver, as donh suggested to give yourself a little relief. There is no reason to suffer too much and definitely no reason to go back to full agonists. If it becomes necessary - restart your Sub at a very low dose and do a longer, more gradual taper so that you can avoid this suffering. That's okay if you need to do that - it's not a failure!
Actually, I am confident that you can get through these "acute" withdrawals. You'll probably be able to gut it out and find a way to cope. The other thing I am concerned about it the post-acutes. That's what did me in after my trial at cold-turkey and abstinence-based recovery. I could not handle the ongoing depression/low motivation of PAWS, not to mention the nearly constant cravings and obsession to use. I hope this is not the case with you. So much I hope that.
Thank you so much for posting your experiences. It's so valuable to us.

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I really think clonidine helped me out greatly. I used it for a few months straight and actually switched sub doc's, meaning I was sub-less for 6 days. I took the clonidine this whole time and I think it helped a good bit with many symptoms (it made a big difference for my sleep when I took it with the sub, when I had no subs for those 6 days, I still didn't sleep much, but the clonidine did help for sure) and once I got back onto subs (with my current doctor) I wanted to save money on scripts (all cash) so decided not to take the clonidine again (all though, second guessing that move). I didnt taper. I was back on subs now, but I did 'cold turkey' .3 mg per day of the clonidine. I dont know if it was cause of the subs, but I didnt feel any different. I was expecting to, but nope! BUT I would imagine that one's blood pressure would spike, maybe not too much but maybe dangerously too much....I am no doctor. If you are not on the subs, then your blood pressure would be a bit high from that past week or so of coming of the subs so it might not be safe to jump from clonidine with that being said. I also think you mentioned something that your blood pressure is low to begin with, so use caution with clonidine.

These are simply one person's opinions/experiences.......please get a few more sources to confirm some of above. I just trying to help, good luck!
_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali

I don't want to violate any "rules" on giving medical advice here. Then again, this is not medical advice. Just some information.

I can tell you that I was given clonidine during my inpatient detox and it actually did work pretty well. Understand that what you are reading on the Internet (or wherever) about Clonidine is related to it's longer term use as a blood pressure medication. It very well may be that you have to wean off of it during long-term use or that it may take time to work, etc. That will not apply to your short-term use. I could feel the symptoms partially subside within about an hour or so. Mind you, it is not going to do anything other than dull the feelings you are having. It won't substantially take them away. In my case, however, and in the case of many others, it will make a noticeable difference.

My bigger concern would be with dropping your blood pressure. Is there any chance that you can check your BP? You said it was already low. I'd hate to see you bottom out your pressure. Then again, a single dose is unlikely to do that. If you do feel faint, etc. simply lie down and elevate your feet. You also have the lowest dose pills available. Total daily dosage for the treatment of opiate withdrawal typically ranges between 0.5 and 1.4 mg, depending on the stage as well as the severity of withdrawal symptoms. 0.1 is not likely to cause any significant blood pressure problems. In fact, you may need a higher dose than that for effect.

I am assuming that an MD provided these to you? Following what he/she has directed should be fine for you. If you did not get these from an MD just please be mindful of your blood pressure.

Glad to hear you are doing better. Keep hanging in there!

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Hope that helps, .1mg is a small amount, but it always helped me. Sounds like you have many things to make sure your blood pressure doesn't drop too low....i'm sure you'll be fine, just take it easy.

As for BigRed, actually.....this probably sounds stupid, but it was a nick name that kinda stuck. I guess you can say that is it, but with out the massive story behind it. Another time/place...

It doesn't, however, have anything to do with the Army or anything, which I greatly respect, but not a part of....I do have lots of family and friends who are part of the Armed Forces one way or another. Thank you for asking!! Take Care
_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali

Wow,
If I was you, Payton, I would go check into a hotel for the next few days and take it easy!! Hubby is a big boy, and the kids will be fine with him. But, if that's not an option, I think the clonidine could really help. Or really, you just have to tough it out. Which you have done, admirably!! And I really think the worst is over. Try to keep your mind positive. I'm always checking this thread to see your updates. G'luck!
JD

Payton, after I posted, I noticed that I neglected to talk about the fact of why it is thought that Clonidine works for withdrawal. Without going into the whole sympathetic - parasympathetic response junk, your blood pressure and pulse rate tend to rise/increase when you go into withdrawal. That is partially why clonodine works. The whole point is, even if your blood pressure is low (kids and stress aside) it very often rises when you experience withdrawal. That fact alone will help increase the margin of safety for you. See how 0.1 mg works for you. You may very well need a bit more than that. Just remember that you can't "feel" or "sense" very well if at all what your blood pressure is doing. That's why they used to call it the silent killer. I would be very hesitant to go over 0.3 at a time until you have some experience using this medication. At the stage of withdrawal you are likely in, you should feel at least some effect with 0.1 or for sure 0.2.

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Just a quick chime-in to say - Payton, you are awesome! hanging in there like a champ! Keep posting!
And everyone who has posted on this thread - it's great - I think it's going to be a thread that will be read over and over again for a long time by people who are contemplating going off Suboxone or who have already made the decision and are struggling with withdrawals. To me, the most beautiful thing about it is that no one is going off on a Sub-bash or a blame game kind of thing. Everyone's just talking about their personal experiences and how they get through some tough times.
I think it's great!

I agree that you really are doing great. Much braver and stronger than me...

I hope you got by last night with the Clonodine and without the klonopin. But if you needed the Klon too... that is no problem at this point. As they say in AA... one day at a time

It sounds like you have a gem of a husband... I'm sure you already know he is deserving of an extra special christmas.

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It's getting clearer and clearer that you are indeed well over the hump or the mid-way point with all of this. That is so awesome! I didn't mean to scare you with that "silent killer" comment. They call blood pressure that due to people that have HIGH blood pressure and have no way of knowing it - unless it is tested. That's where that came from. Low blood pressure is not where the silent killer came from. Sorry. It sounds like you made it through fine though. I wanted to tell you that the clonidine is not only for night time use. That can be taken around the clock every four to six hours as needed. If 0.1mg works for you, taking that as needed, just not more than every four hours, will be well within the typical dose. I'm not saying you need to take it around the clock - just that you do not have to wait until nighttime. If you are having symptoms in the morning or afternoon, you will benefit as well. If you are still concerned, see if you can get your blood pressure taken some place.

Please keep letting us know how you are doing. I'm sure it is an inspiration to all sorts of readers!

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