3rd day Off 8mgs; when does withdrawal start?

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total

Hey! Sorry, guys/gals…I felt like I had to delete my posts; I had someone approach me that had been on this website. I’m not really comfortable with just anyone in my life going on here and reading about me. I think I shared a little too much and lost a little anonymity.

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:41 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

Payton - As much as I hate to be a downer here, I have to say I cannot imagine that you are out of the woods yet. Since you experienced severe withdrawal when you cold turkeyed opiates in the past, I would only think you're going to have similar withdrawals coming off Suboxone. I don't think I've ever read or heard of anyone stopping Sub at that high of a dose without going through a pretty rough time and unfortunately, for a pretty long time.
I hope I am wrong and I do believe that mental attitude plays a strong role in how bad things are perceived, so by all means keep a positive attitude and expect the best, not the worst!
If you search through the forum you'll find several posts about different people's experiences in stopping Suboxone. Personally, I haven't been through it yet so I have no first-hand insight for you. It is pretty common to hear that stopping at doses higher than 1mg or so can be difficult, and that stopping at a dose of 8mg/day is tantamount to hell on earth. The symptoms seem to be akin to withdrawing from any other opiate with the major difference being the onset of withdrawal is delayed (up to 5-7 days) and the acute phase lasts longer (as much as a month.)
When/if my time comes to discontinue Sub, I'll plan a long taper reducing my dose as low as I can and skipping days between doses until completely off. This seems to be the best way to avoid experiencing severe withdrawal and I've heard stories (my doctor included) of people doing it this way and having NO withdrawal symptoms whatsoever.
I'm glad you have another Rx for Sub in case you run into problems. Since you've made the decision to stop it I hope you are successful and have no problems. But if you do....fill the Rx and take a little more time to wean yourself down. The last thing you want to to do is run a great risk of relapse, or worse yet get into a worsening of the depression or anxiety and suicidal thoughts you've been feeling. I'm glad you are seeing a therapist to help you and I wish you the best of luck as you go forward. Please keep posting about your progress. Experiences like yours are so helpful to us all and there are many of us here who will try to help you in any way possible.

Payton,
Wow, you are really much braver than I am!! LOL. So, I also hate to tell you, but I suspect you just still have enough Sub in your bloodstream to keep you from going into withdrawal. Buprenorphine can have a half-life of up to 72 hours (and really under some conditions and in some individuals even longer). But you have to also recognize that it can take up to 5 half-lives for a drug to leave your system - a half-life doesn't necesarilly mean all of the drug will be gone in twice that amount of time. I guess you could be one of the lucky few...but i really doubt it.
I think you should stay on 4 mg's for a few days and then start to taper. Discuss the depression/suicide issues w/ your therapist. However, the MOST important thing is, if you really, truly feel suicidal, drop everything and GO STRAIGHT TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM. Make sure to bring your Sub and all your meds. Tell them you're suicidal. Believe me, I've done it before, there's no shame in seeking help. There is no temporary problem in your life worth using a permanent solution.
I really wish you well, man. Keep us posted.
James

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:40 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

I'm glad you're still doing well! And glad to hear you have a spiritual life that you are actively engaging in. I do believe in faith and the power of prayer. If you do get into some rough physical symptoms, that is what is going to get you through. I'm sorry you had such awful pshychological symptoms on Suboxone. I think that is pretty unusual as most of us actually feel somewhat of a lift in our mood, especially those with a history of depression. Just goes to show once again how different we all are made and how differently each individual will react to medications. I saw that so much in my practice as a nurse - what worked great for one person didn't work at all for the next sometimes.
Whatever happens, hang tough and keep believing for things to get better for you. Please continue to post your experiences.

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:40 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

AMEN to your thoughts and beliefs on Christ!!

Glad to hear things are still going well for you... I don't believe for a second that dropping off at a higher dose like 8mg can be better than tapering down and quitting. By the same thought... I don't believe tapering down to 2mg and jumping off is much different than quitting at 8mg. No evidence... just my own personal thoughts. I believe in order for a taper to have the desired effect you need to go slow and jump off at no more than .50mg and lower is even better.

I was on methadone for 14 yrs and switched to Subs about 1.5 yrs ago. I started a taper from 12mg subs a few mos ago and am currently at .40mg without no real withdrawls so far. I'm sure about one thing and that is the worst is yet to come. So I plan on using the liquid method and dropping .10mg [100mcg] every 2-3 wks. The really strange thing about subs is I really feel no different now than when I was taking 12mg. I'm sure this is because of the long drawn out slow taper.

Just to give you an idea of the potency of subs... medical dr's in Europe prescribe .30-.40mg of subs for acute pain to non addicts. So even though I'm on a relativlely low dose... I'm getting a similar amount as pain patients.

My advice would be if the withdrawls start to come on... try taking 2mg or less and start a slow taper from there.

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:39 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

Hang in there...
I really think you might find that Sub withdrawal is milder than from Oxy's....just try not to psych yourself out. Give it a few more days. Keep us posted.
JD

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:38 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

First off... you are way ahead of the game just by getting to day six.

A good number of people who try to quit from 8mg don't make it as far as you. I personally think you are could be seeing the worst of it and in a few more days might even see some improvement in the physical part. The best thing you have going for you is the 4 month duration of your subs use. That is a relatively short period.

Even though your brain receptors have developed a relationship with Bupe... they haven't married each other yet. So your not going thru a divorce... just breaking off a dysfunctional relationship.

Hang in there... you are going to make it!!!

Ethan

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:38 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

Hello, I havent said anything to ya yet but I want to after reading the thread today again. I too jumped from large amount because of doctor issues a few months back (16mg per day for bout 4 months-ish), but it wasnt obviously what I wanted so did go back few days later but...

I didnt notice a thing phyiscal untill late day 3. Day 4 is when I really noticed it creeping up. I had to wait to day 6 because that was when my scheduled appointment was for new doctor. But it did keep on getting a lil worse day by day. Defiently nothing to not goto work or not be able to function. The mental thing before anything phyiscal symptoms started was what I think made everything worse. I just "knew" that any second I would get that nasty dope sick. I bet if I had not been thinking that way it would not have been as bad....but believe me, I am not downplaying what you are feeling.

I do know that I couldnt do anything but lie in fetal position and barely make it to bathroom for 3 or 4 REALLY NASTY days coming off of the quick acting full agoinist strong narcotics cold turkey....the many of times I had done it. But probably a total of 8-11 days total acute w/d's (not on anything extended release, that was always a bit longer...) I really dont thing at any point, even if jumped from high amount, could suboxone w/d's cause this.....I do think that everything is more drawn out with the suboxone tho.

Either way I want to say you sound like you are taking it very well and that is totally awesome!!! Seriously! If you can do it, I really hope you the best and maybe you will be spared any more pain then what you have gone through. If I can help any way please gimme a shout!!! I wish you all the best and take care.
_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:33 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

Hi Payton,

I've been following your story and wanted to say welcome and offer my support.

Regarding the insomnia, I use Trazodone (aka desyrel). Have you heard of it? It's an older atypical anti-depressant, but it's my understanding that it's used just as often for insomnia as it is for depression (if not more). It works really well for me; in fact I prefer it over typical sleeping pills like Ambien or Lunesta.

Just wanted to throw that out there. Keep up the good work!

Melissa

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

I think when they say it will take weeks to take effect they're referring to the anti-depressant properties. Think of the sleep aspect as a side effect, which would be immediate; no need to build it up in your system.

With regard to Trazodone, I noticed the first few mornings on it I did wake up a bit groggy, but that went away within a matter of days.

Good luck.

MEL

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

Hey Payton,
I've taken both Elavil and Trazadone, and the literature you were reading must have been referring to the antidepressant properties of the drugs taking a few weeks to kick in. The sleep aid quality kicks in right away. One thing though, make sure you take both on an empty stomach. Also, if you are taking any other prescription drugs besides Subs and the Klonopin, make sure you ask a pharmacist before taking either, and especially the Elavil as it is a tricyclic antidepressant, and those do have many potential drug interactions.
However, there is no need to have a panic attack, I've never heard of anyone being hurt in any way by taking either one of these drugs. And I used to take mixes of like 10 antidepressants and anti-psychotics together, including Trazadone at times and Elavil at times, and nothing really bad ever happened. So, what I'm saying, take it and just relax and try to sleep. And you know what, if you end up having to pop the Klonopin, that's not that bad. You can easily taper that after the Suboxone withdrawal ends. Just don't guilt trip yourself.....you need to be extra kind to yourself right now. You're suffering enough as it is. Good luck and God be with you!
JD

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted

Just remember...
It's your brain tricking you into having these negative thoughts.
It's not really "you."
I know I don't know you, but I'm glad you posted your struggle and I'm actually proud of you. This struggle is going to be worth it in the end. I can absolutely see that, even though I'm sure it's hard for you to see it right now. It's kind of like you're in the middle of a hurricane, and I'm at the Weather Channel looking at the Doppler radar. Just keep hanging on....when it starts to recede, it will feel so good.
Stay strong.
JD

Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total

deleted