Having withdrawls on 24mg of suboxone daily

Hi,

I have been on suboxone since Feb. 15th, 2010.. i started on 32mg p/ day and now im 24mg p/ day and for some reason for the last 2 wks, I have been withdrawling badly while taking the pills. Is there a reason for this? Is it normal? AND what can I do to fix it? I'm cramping, going through sweats, etc. Please help.

if you have been on it since February, and you haven't taken anything else, and you are all the sudden getting withdrawals, then I would suggest you don't have withdrawal and you might have something else. It makes no sense.

Cherie

Hello Miabella. I'm sorry you're having a hard time. I have to agree with Jackcrack. I can't imagine that your symptoms are due to withdrawals. You're way plenty buprenorphine to be having opiate withdrawals. Withdrawal would be almost scientifically impossible. That is assuming that you are taking the tablets as directed and getting the medication absorbed properly. If you're letting them dissolve under your tongue, the medication should be taken up into your bloodstream and doing it's job.
I know you said that it's only been happening for a couple of weeks. So did you feel relief from your initial withdrawal when you first started on the Suboxone? Then just notice these symptoms after your dose reduction? Could there be a psychological element to it?
Do you have some other medical conditions that perhaps have been masked over the months or years by your drug abuse? You should probably have a complete workup with your doctor and make sure that there's not something else going on.
I will add that I've heard of several people who complain of the sweating thing being a problem on Sub, so that wouldn't be unheard of as a side effect.
And by "cramping"....Do you mean your muscles are cramping? Or is it just a generalized achiness? For me, w/d pain was mostly in my legs....just a horrible, deep ache like nothing I've ever experienced before or since. To me that is different than 'normal' muscle aches or pains. I will say that after I got on Suboxone, every little ache or twinge seemed magnified 100 fold. If my head hurt, it was worse than normal. If my back hurt, worse than normal. If I had menstrual cramps, they were the worst I'd ever had. There is actually a phenomenon called 'opiate-induced hyperalgesia' which kind of explained to me why that was happening....why my pain tolerance which used to be quite high, was suddenly so low. I was thinking that I had simply become a whimp, but after reading this I realized there was a reason. See if you agree after reading the following:

"Opioid-Induced Hyperalgesia—An alternative explanation for the lack of analgesia
derived from maintenance opioids may be the presence of opioid-induced hyperalgesia. This
is the result of neuro-plastic changes in pain perception that yield an increase in pain sensitivity.
The outcome is that opioids have less potent analgesic effects (45,56–5 Cool

. Empirical evidence
supports increased sensitivity to experimental pain in patients receiving OAT (33,38,55,59–
62), such that patients receiving maintenance methadone therapy tolerate cold-pressor pain
only half as long as do matched controls (55,59). Accumulating evidence suggests that
maintenance with buprenorphine therapy has similar and statistically significant effects on pain
tolerance, although to a lesser degree than methadone (63). The pain intolerance of patients
receiving methadone and buprenorphine maintenance therapy can be conceptualized as a latent
hyperalgesia secondary to long-term opioid exposure.
The presence of hyperalgesia with ongoing opioid use has resulted in reexamination of the
previously described phenomenon of opioid analgesic tolerance. Both hyperalgesia and opioid
tolerance involve neuroplastic changes associated with excitatory amino acid (N-methyl-Daspartate)
and opioid receptors (64–70). The hyperalgesic processes precipitated by opioid
administration serve to counteract opioid analgesia (56,71–73); thus, it is possible that what
seems to be opioid analgesic tolerance may in fact be an expression of an opioid-induced
increased sensitivity to pain." -----taken from the NIH paper on Acute Pain Management for Patients Receiving Methadone Maintenance or Buprenophine Therapy which Hatmaker posted for us a few weeks ago.

So maybe that's what is happening to you Miabella. I'm not a doctor or an expert. These are just some of my thoughts on your situation. Come back and tell us a little more about your history and your exact symptoms and maybe we can help more. I sure want the Suboxone to work well for you. It sure has for a lot of us here. So yeah...please keep posting and let us help if we can!

I don't know if I'm replying to your responses the correct way, I'm new to the site but here goes..

To give a little background, I was taking opiates (perks and oxycontin mainly) for 4 yrs, consistently. It became alot worse this last year, after the passing of my mother on March 17th,2009. Then, on Feb 13th of this year, my father passed away of a pulmonary emballism.. After that, I took an overdose of 200+ different types of pills including Percocet 10, Vicodin HP, Ambien CR, Xanax slabs, and Neurotin.. I was found by a family member, apparently flat lined a few times, had to get paddled and woke up with a breathing tube down my throat. I came out of it all with a collapsed lung and a lung infection caused from the overdose. Anyways.. once I came through, I started going through severe withdrawl.. so the doctor in the hospital put me on suboxone 8mg x 4.. and it helped, it was the first time i had taken suboxone. Then, I got out of the hospital 2 wks later and contacted a suboxone clinic. Once I went there, they felt 32mg a day was too high, considering im only 18 and wasnt on any street drugs, so they dropped me to 24mg. I didnt have a problem with the drop and didn't feel much discomfort at all... then for some reason, everything has changed this past week or two. I have been severely nausiated, had other stomach issues which im sure anyone who has experienced withdrawl has experienced before.. I have cramping of my muscles.. and not just like a muscle ache, it's a full on cramping (charley horse) type pain in my legs,calves and stomach. I've also been having hot and cold sweats. I've also had severe insomnia, but that's normal for me.

As for my medical history, I really dont have any issues besides depression. I have experienced panic attacks before and would definetly know the difference since ive felt both a panic attack and a withdrawl before. From what I hear, what I am experiencing is very uncommon with suboxone and I'm just really looking for answers or advice. I have an appointment with my doctor on the 30th, but I dont want to call him any sooner. He really doesn't know me that well and I dont want him to think im trying to score more suboxone from him. Again, any advice or suggestions would be so helpful. One request though, I am really going through a hard time in my life, so IF anyone should feel the need to be condescending as I seen one or two of my beginning replies were, please just dont respond. ANYONE that can help me, I'd so appreciate it.

I want to apologize if you felt my first response was condescending. It wasn't intended that way. I also want to express my condolences. You certainly have had a rough time. With that being said, I think you will probably have to talk to your doctor about this because like setmefree said, it is almost scientifically impossible for you to be having withdrawal right now. The only reason I say "almost" is because there is always a remote possibility of some other medical condition you suddenly developed and are unaware of that could be preventing the suboxone from working but I am not a doctor so I would have no idea what that could be. I am afraid that when you do tell your doctor you will need to be very firm because he/she is likely to poo poo your complaints under the circumstances. I do hope you have a good doctor who will recommend a full workup.

Again, I am truly sorry for your loss and very glad you made it through. It is tough losing parents at any age, but I can't imagine losing them at age 18. I would have been absolutely lost. I hope you have a good support system and if not, I definitely hope you stick around here.

Take care!
Cherie

Geesh Mia....you've been through a lot! I'm really sorry about that. I barely even know what to say....taking drugs from the age of 14, losing both your parents by 18, overdosing and almost dying......I cannot even imagine! You have a lot to overcome! I'm not even going to pretend that I have a clue what you've been through. But please don't give up. Life can get better. And it sounds like you want it to. I can pretty much promise you that if you go back to life like it was before your overdose, it's just going to be repeat after repeat of the same old thing. You've been given a chance to change so please keep trying.
Okay. Thanks for giving us more of your history. That helps. I'm still somewhat baffled by your symptoms. But I'm still leaning towards it being unrelated to your Suboxone......unless it's actually that you're taking too much Suboxone at this point. That could explain the nausea, the muscle cramping and the insomnia.....possibly. The other thing I'm wondering is if this could all be related to your recent stay in the hospital. Maybe your electrolytes are out of whack. If you're low on certain vitamins or minerals, some strange symtoms can appear. There is really no way to know unless you have some blood work and testing done with your doctor.
You might try and think back and remember what you felt like when you were for sure in opiate withdrawal. Is this really the same....exactly? Because I still can't think you're having w/d at this dose of Suboxone. It just makes no sense. I want you to figure this out because I don't want you to quit Suboxone. I think that would be a huge mistake. Personally, I have found that the least amount of Sub I can take and stay out of w/d and keep the cravings away.....the better I feel. I know there are lots of others who would agree. Sub is not like the other drugs where more is better! Hey....what about cravings? Are you having cravings since on the Sub?
I'll quit speculating. I am not a doctor or an expert, just someone like you trying to get better from opiate addiction. If your symptoms become unbearable before your next appt, go ahead and call the doctor and let him/her help you. You can send me a PM anytime. Hope we're helping you out some.

My ENTIRE situation is complicated...

I never ENJOYED getting high.. everytime I ever took any type of pill it was to self medicate other problems. I think this is why I am not having any cravings at all.. and again I cant stress enough how much it originally was working for me, until the last week or so. I have been under an excessive amount of stress, maybe that's contributing? I'm just not sure.. I have been through oxy contin withdrawl before, and the symptoms are quite similiar.. not NEARLY as violent but.. still really uncomfortable.. I haven't even been able to complete my school work. I called my doctor this morning and I'm waiting for a call back. I'm really concerned he's going to end up telling me he wants to cut me back to 2 a day, I'm not mentally or physically ready for a cut.

Thank you both for the condolences. I had AMAZING parents, I can honestly say they were both my best friends. They'd be horrified if they knew I had a drug problem. Both of their deaths we're undrugrelated.. as I said, my dad died from a pulmonary emballism and my mom a cebral hemmorage.. both we're 44 and ironically enough, I found both of them after they passed away, Because of this history, I am worried the doctor is going to think its psychological and how could I prove differently? There's no way for my to prove what's going on in my body. I've been out of the hospital since Feb. 1st so I dont think my hospital stay could have much to do with it. I'm just reallly confused! Everyone that I talk to tells me how strong suboxone is, and I believe it, but for some reason, it's just reacting weird on me lately.. Idk if this counts but, I noticed when I used to take pain pills, there were some days where nothing I took would work.. maybe it's just me? lol..

I hope this doctor could give me some kind of answer. I'm concerned because I dont know him well, he's only seen me twice! SOO I guess I just have to wait.. any more advice or feed back is appreciated

Hi miabellamorte66,
Hello & Welcome to the Forum. I would like to add my condolences for your Loss!! I lost my Mom young But had my Dad into his 80Th year Smile

.... I can't imagine the loss you must be feeling.. That being said what others have said to you is true. There is so much GOOD out there in life you just have to go get your share.... Very Happy

As far as your medical situation goes that has me baffled as well.. I am NOT a Dr. or Health professional either BUT I do think you need to see one Sooner rather than later.... I have never heard of W/D's with that much Suboxone due to the long half life etc. ... Just because I have never heard of it doesn't make you feel any better I'm sure!!! That's why I would suggest you get into your Dr. ASAP and be as honest as possible during your apt. I know I can always try to tell them what I want them to hear instead of what I'm feeling.... If that makes any sense to you?? Anyways best of luck and Please keep us " in the loop" on your progress so we can keep track of your Recovery with you.... Very Happy

Take Care!

God Bless
TW
_________________
"I may not have ALL I want but thank's to God I now know that I have ALL I need !!!!!!
#############
ODAAT

Mia, I'm so sorry for your loss and everything you've been through. It gave me pause when you said both your parents were 44 - my age. It reminds me not to take anything for granted. I believe you can still draw upon your parents' strenghth spiritually even if they are not physically present. Their love is still with you and their presence still surrounds you in your time of need.
Please go ahead and see the doctor and don't worry about what he will think. That type of muscle cramping does sound like it could be an electrolye problem which isn't anything to fool around with. Also, you had a lot of benzos recently leaving the body which can cause problems, too. I think it will be clear to the doc that you really are sick and you're not looking for drugs.
I hope you can surround yourself with supportive people as well, friends, family and therapy. Grief, depression and chemical dependency all tend to make people isolate - Getting out of yourself is your best defense.
I hope you will stay around this forum. There is lots of support here.
Hope you feel better - our hearts go out to you,
Lilly

Again everyone, THANKS for all of the condolences.. I'm really just in an overall bad situation..

ANYWAYS, the doctor's secretary called back and relayed the message I KNEW I was going to get. "The doctor can't give you 4 a day, he said to just ride it out." Now this is just frustrating! I did not ask for four a day..I dont like these pills, I dont ENJOY them, why would I want more? I simply asked WHY is this happening to me? WHAT could be causing this? and WHAT should I do differently? You try to get advice and they just assume you want more drugs..it's just upsetting.

Part of me wishes I was on Methadone. I've taken it before (not for addiction purposes) and it worked really well on me. My family, however, frowns upon Methadone and I'm sure many of you will, too. AND I know Methadone is very addicting.. but then I hear, so is Suboxone! Shouldn't I take something that I KNOW works on me if it's going to be difficult to get off of anyway? I'm just really in need of advice and answers.. I was always a major Daddy's girl and I can thoroughly say that he was my best friend and major source of support. I do have family members that help me, but they aren't sympathetic at ALL. They have the attitude 'you chose this lifestyle..you'd be withdrawling 10x worse without the suboxone" .. I'm well aware of the second part of this statement, but that still doesn't change the fact that I've been just miserable for 2 wks now. Eh, I'm done babbling!

I think the hard part here is that "if" you called your sub doctor then they ARE likely to assume that you want more sub, otherwise, why would you call them. The stupidity on THEIR part is that they often don't realize people will assume it is the suboxone or withdrawal causing the problem so that is where they go first. They should have referred you back to your general practitioner or to the ER.

If you didn't go to your sub doctor or your sub doc is the same as your general practitioner, then I think you need a new doctor. HOWEVER....I have had the same problem with my GP who assumes every time I come in all I want is drugs and the funny thing is I got most of my drugs on the street and not from him so he has no right to think that way.

Bottom line....I don't think this has anything to do with withdrawal or suboxone. It definitely sounds like you have some anxiety. In terms of methadone versus suboxone....that is a choice you have to make. In my opinion, suboxone is the preferred drug and is not actually addictive whereas I believe methadone is. So with suboxone you won't need increasingly high doses and with methadone you will (or at least that is what I hear).

I am concerned for you that you seem very fixated that this is related to the suboxone and when you do that, you may not be investigating the real cause of it which could actually be a real medical problem that needs to be addressed. I would go get checked out. If everything else is ruled out, then you could start investigating whether or not it is the suboxone.

Hang in there. But make sure you get in with someone tomorrow. You can't just go on feeling like this.

Cherie

My apologies for not reviewing of the posts in detail, but I wanted to get in a quick comment. As has been already stated, I would be very surprised that a person would have w/d at 24 mg. But if it was w/d, there are some things that would help to make that determination. First, your pupils would be huge. This is one of the most reliable indicators of w/d, and in most people it is fairly easy to recognize, as the iris becomes almost absent during severe withdrawal (the iris is the brown or blue part of the eye, that surrounds the pupil). Second, the symptoms would occur near the end of the dosing cycle, and would progressively get worse until the next dose. Third, buprenorphine takes about 20 minutes to start working after dosing, so the w/d symptoms would not go away for the first 20 minutes after dosing.

There are people who metabolize buprenorphine differently, but in all cases I have come across, the 'different people' metabolize buprenorphine more SLOWLY, not more quickly. Some medications slow the metabolism of buprenorphine, for example-- Prozac being one of the biggest offenders. There are a few medications that could theoretically increase breakdown of bupe; phenobarbital, and perhaps tegretol, as both increase the activity of certain liver enzymes.

Finally, make sure you are getting full absorption of the buprenorphine; I have a new post at Suboxone Talk Zone today about optimizing absorption of buprenorphine.

I'm some what concerned that this is unsolvable.. A few replies to the responses..
+I am very depressed, and I DO have alot of anxiety, but it's nothing new. I've had the very same depression and anxiety when I started this. AND as I said, it was working just fine.
+Regarding the way I actually take them, I'm pretty much absorbing far MORE than I was.. Before I hated the taste, so I only let them dissolve half way and just swallowed the rest. Shouldn't I be doing much better since I'm getting the full dose versus being worse?
+I am not fixated on it being from the suboxone. BUT, I have been through horrible withdrawl a few times before and I am able to recognize the symptoms. AGAIN, the muscle cramps, nausea, diahrrea, hot and cold sweats, no appetite and sleeplessness. My pupils have been rather large lately, but I just assumed it had something to do with my constant migraine headaches (I've had these since a very young age)
+Regarding what I've observed on how they work.. IT started with my morning and afternoon doses would work, and then at night I'd be miserable.. but now, the morning dose works a very minimal amount.. I find that an hour will go by and I'm still in a cold sweat, the muscle cramps are still there but they become somewhat bearable, and I still feel slightly miserable. Then, my afternoon dose basically doesn't accomplish a real lot at all. Lastly, when my night dose comes, I truly feel like I've taken nothing the entire day. MY body cramps, I'm running to the bathroom, tossing my blankets onto the ground then shivering enough to put them back on and I lie awake all night feeling this way. I am not quite sure how much longer I can go through this cycle.
+The only other detail about my history that I didn't share was that I was addicted to Xanax for far longer than I was Opiates. I had a daily habit of about a slab a day. I haven't taken any xanax since the day I overdosed, which was the 15th of Feb.. but could I still be experiencing any issues from the actual xanax? I did notice I was short of breath and had some facial twitching and was told it was a result of the xanax withdrawl. BUT my question is, could I still be experiencing issues from them?

None of this makes any sense.. I mean, I hear everyone when they say "oh it cant be the suboxone but... what am I supposed to think? MY body is going through this.. I'M the one dealing with this... I went on suboxone because I knew I wasn't mentally stable enough to go through the whole withdrawl process.. and suddenly, I am.. atleast I'm experiencing those type of SYMPTOMS. I just had a complete work up in the hospital when I overdosed and other than a collapsed lung and a lung infection, I dont have any medical issues. Any final thoughts? I really can't go on just feeling miserable like this, it's interfering with several areas of my personal life.

Hi Mia,

Welcome to the forum. You have been through so much in your life already. I am sorry to hear that you are not feeling well. I read through this thread last night and did not post anything because I could not think of anything to say that would be helpful and that wasn't already said.

Your last post about the xanax was interesting. I have never been addicted to xanax, although I did take it once when I was detoxing from oxy, and even after using it for 10 days, I noticed that I was really wanting to take it at night to calm down and it took me 3 or 4 nights not to obsess about it. I had to throw the remainder of the away so I wouldn't take any more. I have read about the horrific withdrawals of benzos and didn't want anything to do with that.

So, I am really wondering if that is what is going on with you. I know it takes a very long time to get through benzo withdrawals. It makes sense even though it has been two months since you have taken xanax. I wish I knew more about it, and I am sure someone will come along soon that knows more about xanax withdrawal. Excuse my ignorance, but what is a slab, how much xanax were you taking a day. Did you taper at all with it or just cold turkey it.

I really don't think your symptoms have anything to do with your sub. The only thing I am wondering though, is if at first you were not letting it disolve and swallowing it, you may have been absorbing very little of it. It could possibly be that you are taking too much sub. I know that when I take more than my dose (just because I think it will help, and it never does) I always feel horrible after, and it does feel like withdrawals. Maybe you should try taking 4 mg at a time, wait for at least half an hour and see how you feel before you take more. Of course, you should always talk to your doctor before changing doses, but it does not sounds like he is being very helpful at the moment.

Anyway, I hope you start to feel better soon. Keep posting and asking questions and give as much information as you can think of. There are a lot of people here with a ton of good knowledge about sub, so you are in the right place to get to the bottom of this.
Take care,
Ginger [spoil][code]

I think you might be onto something with the xanax. It usually needs to be tapered very, very slowly to an extremely low dose. If you went cold turkey you could definately still be having withdrawals from that. I knew someone who had to go back on a low dose and then taper off because she got off it too fast. I haven't been through it myself, but there is a lot of info. on the web about it.
Also, I'm wondering if your pretty much feeling the same each day, or is your situation getting any better/worse? I hope you can find a doc who will hear you out. You sound sick enough to be seen by someone.
Hope you get some answers and feel better soon.
Lilly

That could be possible with the Xanax.. I didn't cut down or anything, I just quit cold turkey because I no longer has access to them. I never even mentioned to my doctor that I was formerly taking them. I thought I'd be over it after 2 months though, and I'm not quite sure why it would get so bad, so suddenly. Any ideas?

And it's gotten a little worse over the last 2 wks, I know someone asked me that.

Could I have a bad batch of pills?

One a bit off topic question, I'm going to have a pretty big dental procedure done, what do I do for pain? Has anyone been through this?

Hi mia and welcome!
I wanted to respond about your upcoming dental procedure. Do you already know you'll need pain meds? There are a couple of articles about treating acute pain in sub patients in the "Links" section. I also just finished a thread about my own recent surgery (that's under the "surgery" topic).

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time and feeling so lousy. It's got to be terribly frustrating for you - knowing you're sick and not having your doctor listen, not knowing what the problem is, etc. Is there anything that does relieve your symptoms - even a couple of them? You might want to start keeping a journal. Write down when you take all your meds and when your symptoms show up, even keep track of when and what you eat. Perhaps you'll be able to see a pattern somewhere. It'll also be good to have that when you do get a doctor to listen to you. Just a thought.

Take care and keep us posted on how you're doing. Feel better.

Melissa
_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.

I find your situation quite interesting. I am CLEARLY no doctor but was on my way to work this morning just thinking about it and this is what I was thinking.

A) Could be benzo withdrawal but after 2 months that seems a little strange to start all the sudden
B) Then I thought....well...if you got off the benzos all at once, they gave you high doses of suboxone, you could have felt so strange that you didn't really notice it or somehow the suboxone was over riding it momentarily (not likely but these are my brainstorming thoughts)
C) If you were taking the sub incorrectly and not absorbing all of it and then all the sudden started doing it correctly it could put you into precipitated withdrawal I suppose (but not likely because it didn't do it at the lower dose and it has been a long time since you had full agonist opiates)
D) You could have too much sub in your system from all the sudden taking it correctly (but that wouldn't cause all of the symptoms you are describing...only some of them)
E) If you were metabolizing it too slowly it would seem by the 3rd dose of the day you would feel better, not worse and if I understand correctly, it is by the end of the day that you feel the worst
F) If you were metabolizing too quickly It would seem you wouldn't feel the worst in the evening because you would have the build up from the day...you would feel the worst in the morning because that would be the longest time since your last dose

There were a few more thought on all of this but this is just my layperson mind at work trying to figure it out. I just can't seem to wrap my brain around it being the suboxone based on what you have said though.....UNLESS.....you got a bad batch somehow. But in that case, it would seem that it wouldn't work at all and I thought you said it was working a little on the first 2 doses you take right? I don't know much about getting a bad batch of drugs but I would think that if you got a bad batch it wouldn't work at all or wouldn't work as long.

How many days have you felt like this now? Three? Has it changed at all? It is exactly the same? Better at all? Worse at all? Different? Has it changed or progressed over the days?

Cherie

Cherie,

It has actually progressed over the days and this has been going on for about a week and a half. I appreciate the fact that you're putting much thought into my situation. IT is difficult now because I had really supportive parents who worried everytime I coughed and now it's like I cant get a single person to even believe I'm sick! They just think "it's the disease talking" it's rather frustrating!

I'm glad I joined the forum and am greatful for all of the advice!

Well...when I think of the "disease talking" I think of denial or someone drug seeking. I don't think you are doing that. I think you are honestly having these symptoms and are trying to find out what is causing it so they will go away. I am not ruling out the possibility that it is psychological but what difference would that really make because you are still feeliing it all the same. So no matter which way you look at it, you do need someone to help you with this. I am all out of ideas for you though. If your pupils are large then you should tell your doctor that because that is a physical symptom that ought to catch his attention.

I can only imagine how hard this is for you. My parents aren't the greatest in the world and I still want them around. I also can't imagine doing this at 18. It is hard enough at 33. Do you have any relatives that you are close with? I am glad you find some comfort in the forum even though we are all a world away and on line. It works for me in many ways though and a lot of the time better than anyone who is physically present. Keep posting and letting us know how you are doing. I am quite curious to see how this turns out or if you can get a doctor to give you a cause for this.

Take care!
Cherie

Hello everyone, hope you had a nice weekend..

I'm still feeling just terrible; I've really been analyzing my feelings and it's as follows:
-I take my morning dose at about 7am - 8am .. and it works pretty well, the sweats almost stop and I feel halfway decent. Then I take my middle dose at about 2-3pm and by this time I am already starting to feel miserable then and it builds from there. I take my last dose between 9-10 pm, and by this time, I'm miserable.. I'm up all night after with sweats, vomitting and diarrhea. I just dont understand these feelings, but I'm certainly going to have a talk with my doctor Friday.

I have been doing some research online and found this interesting..
3 – If you take Suboxone while very physically dependent on opiates

Suboxone is said to have a ceiling effect. That is, it will work very well up to a certain point, but after that point, it can't really work any more.

Some people with heavy addictions won’t find that buprenorphine can give them enough relief from withdrawal symptoms. These people will likely need to start with methadone instead.

Likewise, although people can transfer over from methadone to buprenorphine, they must be down to about 30 mg a day before they can transfer to Suboxone and not feel withdrawal discomforts.
Any opinions on this?

I also wanted to ask another question. I have chronic tension and migraine headaches. My doctor usually subscribes me either furenal (sp) or phenerlin forte. Are either of these OK to take with the suboxone? please let me know Smile

I do have one more question after reading a few posts, I'm concerned if I'm absorbing the suboxone the wrong way.

I keep it under my tongue for about 5 minutes until there are basically crumbs left, then I take a big drink and swallow the remainder down.. I have a feeling I'm doing this wrong, any suggestions?

Mia,

Hey....I haven't written in yet, but I have been following the topic. I just read your last post, and it sounds to met like you may not be leaving the suboxone under your tongue long enough to absorb the medication. Most people need AT LEAST 10 minutes, and many need more (some up to an hour) time for the medication to dissolve and absorb. I suggest you go to Dr. Junig's blog post (Talk Zone Blog)....there is a recent post from a few days ago about getting max absorption. Also, there is a thread under this topic called "how do you take your sub" that has a lot of information about different techniques...I think it is currently the first post.

I, for example, swallow three or four times to make sure there is no spit in my mouth, then place the sub under my tongue, wait 10-15 minutes until it is a paste, then spread that all over my mouth to coat all the surface, then wait about another 10-15 minutes (assuming I am taking a 2mg tablet).....I start when I get in the shower and am done by the time I am dressed...or, I take it in the car. Also, I don't eat or drink anything for at least 15 minutes after i take it.

Some people are really sensitive to the nalaxone in the Suboxone, so they spit out the remaining stuff instead of swallowing...that may help some of your symptoms.

Hope this helps...I'm kinda tired right now, so I may not be making too much sense Smile

but definitely check out the other posts about absorption.

Take care, welcome to the forum!! Good night and good luck!! Wink

Elizabeth
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Elizabeth

Subs Not Drugs!!!

"Don't hope for a life without problems. An easy life results in a judgmental and lazy mind."
- Zen Master Kyong Ho

Hey Mia!
First let me say I am so sorry for your losses. I lost my father when I was 8 yrs old (he was 36) so I feel your pain, and I am so sorry you are dealing with all of this.
When I take my suboxone, I let it under my tongue until it's dissolved completely, and I do not swallow any saliva for half an hour while it's in my mouth and I do not eat or drink, or smoke for 20 mins after that. There are some great posts in this forum about how to take it for max absorbtion. Def/ check them out. I really don't think you are getting enough of the meds the way you are taking them. It's pretty time consuming to take it the way I do , but it works really well that way.
After changing the way you take them and it's still happening I think you should talk to your fam dr and get a full work up just to make sure nothing else is going on.
Keep your head up and keep us posted on how you are doing.