Surgery in 4 days...starting to freak out...

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Surgery in 4 days...starting to freak out... 
Author: lovely143 
Posted: 05/05 12:07 PM 
 
This coming Wednesday I am having arthroscopic knee surgery for a lateral meniscus tear. My Dr. thinks I may have other issues going on as well, based on my MRI, but wont know for sure until he gets inside. I had this same surgery 9 years ago on my left knee but I was HEAVILY medicated at that time. This time, I'm choosing the NO NARCOTICS route. Currently I take Sub Films...16mg per day.
I know I can make it thru this...I'm just starting to get really nervous. I've been clean for 7yrs and I have an excellent support system. But still freaking out a little...
Has anyone out there been thru this, and managed the pain with Mortin/Tylenol or something similar??

 
Author: glen bee 
Posted: 05/05 03:42 PM 
 
hello,

i wanted to post here and let you know i am also getting surgery- on frday the 11th, i am scared too. mine is to remove a cholestetoma from my ear, they have to cut behind my ear - on my head Shocked . my doctor told me i should be fine with motrin to recover. i have been coincidentally tapering off sub after 2.5 years and only take 1.5 mg / day now. i think you should read dr junigs blog post about surgery and the nih paper hatmaker posted in the thread i recently made in the surgery section. i am too lasy to go copy the links Wink

anyway dr j makes some suggestions on lowering your dose before surgery and splitting your sub to dose to take throughout the day like every 4-6 hours while you recover.

most of all, good luck! i hope it goes nice and easy for you!!

- glen b

 
Author: Taurus 
Posted: 05/06 10:01 AM 
 
lovely143 - Check out this thread for some good info on this subject (if you haven't already).

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1812

Surgery on Sub 
Author: rule62 
Posted: 05/06 10:43 AM 
 
It's too bad you weren't able to come here months or even weeks ago to read the posts about going through surgery while taking Suboxone. You would have learned a lot. Glen Bee is doing it right by only being on 1.5mgs. Plus his surgery probably won't require narcotics.

But with knee surgery it may get painful. Print out what Taurus posted and give it to all involved. If you can get your Sub doctor to call the surgeon, even better. If it is indeed very painful, you will probably need some powerful opiates to do the job. Look up Queenie's posts and you'll find some good info. She just recently went through a really bad one.

There have been others on 16mgs who had successful surgeries and pain relief so don't freak out. I'm just saying it would have been best if you could have gotten down to say 1mg before the big day. Then it wouldn't take too long for regular pain meds to work. The problem is the tolerance. I got down to 1mg and was able to take Lortab 10's, but it took a week for them to work right. I should have had something stronger but they wouldn't listen. This is some of the punishment we get for trying to do the right thing by getting off the pain meds.

Hopefully your doctor will understand your tolerance level and prescribe accordingly. Give him that paper for sure.

One more thing. If you do receive adequate pain relief via narcotics, you have to be very careful of your addiction taking over. It did with me and I could only take the Lortabs for a short time before I got back on to my beloved Suboxone.

I wish you a successful surgery!

Rule

 
Author: hatmaker510 
Posted: 05/07 03:55 AM 
 
You've gotten some terrific responses already. I wanted to just say hello and wish you my best. You'll get through this. I would also say that it's a major surgery and I have to wonder if you can go through it w/o opiates. That said, you'll STILL get through this. It doesn't mean you have to relapse. Studies show that recovering addicts aren't placed at a higher rate of relapse when their pain is treated. Quite the opposite - they risk of relapse is actually higher when their pain is left UNTREATED.

Like Rule said, though, take care if you get opiates afterward. I had a procedure a couple years ago and only needed about 2-3 days of opiates and in that small time I remember all that old obsessive thinking from my addiction returning so quickly. I was damn happy to get back on my suboxone. And many people have said the very same thing.

If you do get opiates, you might want to consider giving them to someone to dole out to you. Oh and read that paper yourself really well and get to understand it. Let us know what they do for your post-op and we'll try to help you through that in whatever way we can. If they don't give you enough pain meds, one of the options in this paper (How to treat acute pain in sub/methadone patients) is to add a tiny amount of sub to it and that can really help (both the pain and keeping you out of w/d).

I know this is a lot of info. The more knowledge you have the better you can advocate for your own needs. That paper is only 7 pages long - the last 7 pages are all sources.

Good luck....and welcome to the forum.

 
Author: lovely143 
Posted: 05/07 06:55 PM 
 
Thanks everyone Smile I'm sure I'll be fine. I think!!!
When I went for presurgery testing I made my demand of NO NARCOTICS
pretty darn clear! Although I'm sure I'll still get the 'offer'!
It's just not an option for me. Mainly I guess I was looking for the
conformation that I'll be ok without them. But I've come to the conclusion that
I know I wouldn't be 'OK' with them so I know I'll be ok without them!
Hope that makes sense!
In January, I had major dental work done and had to be put to sleep. 17
extractions, 3 root canals and 4 deep fillings. I also had 6 screws(thats my term for them!!) put in
to hold my new teeth. All of this with nothing except antibiotics and 7 Motrin!
I was expecting it to be horrific and tremendously painful but it was not. Quite uncomfortable
and very inconvenient but not painful.

I will post again after knee surgery and let you all know how I'm doing!
Thanks for the support <3

 
Author: hatmaker510 
Posted: 05/08 04:11 AM 
 
I hope it works out and you can make it through w/o any full agonists. I understand your reasoning why - believe me, I do. I fear the desire coming back right away - and it almost always does. Just beware of the pain. Oral surgery does excellent with Motrin - other types of surgery, not so well.

Good luck and do keep us posted when you are able. Thinking of you.

Re: Surgery in 4 days... REPLY FROM SLIPPER.... 
Author: slipper 
Posted: 05/08 08:14 AM 
 
lovely143 wrote:
This coming Wednesday I am having arthroscopic knee surgery for a lateral meniscus tear. My Dr. thinks I may have other issues going on as well, based on my MRI, but wont know for sure until he gets inside. I had this same surgery 9 years ago on my left knee but I was HEAVILY medicated at that time. This time, I'm choosing the NO NARCOTICS route. Currently I take Sub Films...16mg per day.
I know I can make it thru this...I'm just starting to get really nervous. I've been clean for 7yrs and I have an excellent support system. But still freaking out a little...
Has anyone out there been thru this, and managed the pain with Mortin/Tylenol or something similar??







Dear lovely143,
Hi and welcome to the forum!!

I had surgery last Thursday on my rt. foot to remove a bunion and my big toe had become detached from my foot.
It was day surgery and I decided I would just stay on my subs. I am taking 16mg. and for personal reasons had to schedule the surgery right away so I would not have time to decrease off my subs...then if they gave me pain med. in the hospital it would not work and I would have to wait 12 plus hours before taking my sub and would be without anything.
I talked with the doctor who had never heard of subutex...but agreed not to give me pain medicine.. and when the anesth. came he knew about subs and said he would not give me pain med in surgery. I had a block which deadened my rt. foot and then they gave me versed and other "i don't care" drugs during the surgery....they said I never went to sleep, but I do not remember anything. The surgery was scheduled for 8:45 and we were discharged by 11 am and home by noon!!!

He also gave me some ultram for pain which is not addictive and with that and the bup i have done fine with the pain.

I have also had the surgery you are having and the pain was not bad at all. So ...not to worry..I think you will do quite well.

Good luck and keep us posted on how things are going....
Slipper

 
Author: hatmaker510 
Posted: 05/08 08:22 AM 
 
I just wanted to mention that Ultram/Tramadol IS addictive and we've had people here on the forum that have been on sub for addiction to Ultram. I don't understand it completely, but it has something to do with whether the person has a specific enzyme for it or not. For me, Ultram never did a thing for me, and it sounds like it was the same for you, Slipper. And it's not a controlled substance, so many people don't know it's like an opiate. As well, many doctors tell their patients that it's not addictive, thus confusing things more and more.

I did a search on the forum for Ultram and here's a thread I found. Although I admit I haven't re-read it, it might help explain what I'm unable to. A member who was actually addicted to Ultram posts on that thread and explains the enzyme in the liver better.

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=955&highlight=ultram

I hope this helps explain some of how Ultram is addictive. Just be careful when dealing with it if you're an addict in remission. Oh, btw, it is supposed to be one of them only meds that can be used with suboxone, although it cannot be taken with SSRI's.

 
Author: Taurus 
Posted: 05/08 08:34 AM 
 
Hmmm, what you said about whether a person has a certain enzyme, making it not addictive. I haven't read that thread you posted yet hatmaker, but I will in a bit. But I wonder if that goes for other drugs too? Because I have taken doctor prescribed benzos like Ativan and Xanax, and they did nothing for me.

I hear people all the time saying how addictive they are, and I know it's a fact that they are addictive, but I always wondered why they didn't work for me. I mean they did nothing at all...didn't relieve anxiety, didn't make me tired, or feel good, or anything. So I never understood how someone could get addicted to them. But I do know people in my own life who absolutely are addicted. Maybe I don't have the enzyme? Or my enzyme functions differently? I don't know...just thinking out loud again.

I'll go read that thread and maybe it will make more sense to me.... From suboxforum.com