Bad reaction to subs. Think I need to go off

Bad reaction to subs. Think I need to go off

Author: qhorsegal
Posted: 04/18 12:42 PM

Hey Red,

Just curious, are you off your vics? If so great job! I know that even at just a few a day you can definitely still be addicted. Maybe you will be okay after getting through this week or so without them. I guess the physical withdrawal has to subside eventually...I think what these docs that aren't specialists in addiction discount are the mental withdrawals and cravings. How is that side of it going for you? I'm sorry that the subs didn't work for you...evidently they don't work for every person. Good luck on your recovery.

Detox
Author: anxiousSN
Posted: 04/18 04:15 PM

Red, how long were you on subs? Did you have any w/d from the subs or vics? If so how long. What pisses me off is I have been on subutex for one year. I wasn't addicted to opiotes but i'm sure I'm addicted to subutex now! I talked to another doc and she said I should have been weaned off the 2 loratabs or started on a suboxone dose no higher than 2 to 4 mg. I was sick for months b/c my dose was too high! Now the sub has stacked back up in my system since almost being off in Feb! I feel like I will never get off!!!!! This has been the biggest nightmare of my life! I never want to go throuh this EVER again!!! Congrats to you! I am envious!

Author: Bettyboop
Posted: 04/24 06:37 AM

RedVelvet-

I too, was in treatment and they started me on 8 mg. Subs. I vomited for 36 hours straight and ended up on IVs to hydrate me. They kept giving me more Subs, thinking it was w/d, which only made matters worse. I look back and believe I was actually reacting to the Subs! I even asked the treatment center doc, who was prescribing if it could be a reaction to the Subs. He also said he had "never see any reaction like this". When I started weaning down, I felt better. Here I am 18 months later and dependent on this med. If I had it to do over again, when the doc asked me at the end of my treatment if I wanted to "get off the Subs or stay on the 2 mgs.", I wish I would have stopped then. That is just me, I know Subs help alot of folks, maybe it helped me for the first year stay clean-I will never know!
Good luck to you, this is not all in your head!

sick on subs
Author: anxiousSN
Posted: 04/24 07:36 PM

Bettyboop, my doc said he had never seen anyone react to subs like I did and never had a patient in Three yrs that could not take subs. I vomited, was extremely nauseated, severe headache, and so nervous that my hands and body shook all the time. I would show him that these symptoms were listed as a serious side effect and he just said I had an anxiety prob. & popped me full of Klonopin! I felt horrible until I got to 1 or 2 mg. At that time I told him my dose had been to high and now I feel normal! That 8 hr course they take to be able to prescribe subs is not enough. Too many of these docs don't know what they are doing! Good luck.

Author: wisharer
Posted: 04/24 07:46 PM

sub have been great for me, but my appetite for opiates was taking 10 tens then looking for more in 4 hours this was my norm for years. also i was supplementing with any and all other opiates i could get. its really sad to think that sub is being given to those who should detox in another manner. i am sorry for u that has had a bad reaction due to a doctors ignorance on this powerful medicine. i hope that stories like that doesnt affect people like me who subs really has changed my dope chasing habits to really having to learn to live a normal life. doctors need to b more educated on the opiate addiction levels before passing out scripts for sub. i wish u all the best in recovery

Author: tearj3rker
Posted: 04/24 08:48 PM

It's really concerning how many people come on here being put on such high doses, way more than they require.

It's damaging long term for a person if they end up more dependent on opioids from Suboxone than they were before they went on it. We all know it's real easy for people to become tolerant to opioids ... it's a lot harder for that tolerance to go back down.

I've found that my tolerance to opioids pretty much mirrors how much I crave them when I get off them. ie the higher my tolerance to opioids, the higher my chance of relapse is when I attempt abstinence and the more intense my cravings are in the months and years after I detox.

By allowing one's self to adjust and become tolerant to a dose of Sub that is too high for their needs - it only takes a couple of weeks to become tolerant - it becomes a LOT harder to get off opioids. When the tolerance goes up and the mu receptors upregulate, it leaves lasting changes, some of which remain long after a person gives up opioids completely.

If I were in the position of you guys (I gotta stress I'm not directing people do to things - just saying what I'd do) - I'd reduce my dose ASAP to one that's comfortable and doesn't make me feel stoned. I'd see my doctor and tell him that's the dose you want to be on. If the doctor doesn't agree, then I'd find a decent doctor.

I largely blame the misinformation that's fed to doctors about buprenorphine - that it is a "mild" opioid, that it is less dependence forming than other opioids, that it is somehow different to other opioids. A lot of the research and insights into opioid dependence the medical world has accumulated over the years appears to have been largely undone by campaigns to increase the sales of this drug. And we're the ones who pay for it, with out health.

Author: RedVelvet
Posted: 04/25 09:32 AM

I do agree that these docs need ti have more training and knowledge about how different each and every patient handles and reacts to things. Even though I was a 19 on the cows scale, he said I seemed much different than his other patients as far as withdrawals go. He said most of them pace or shake their legs like crazy and I was quiet and still, mainly because I was tired, I'm used to energetic buzz I got from vics. He also said I was the first person to react the way I did to the subs. Well did he think for a moment that I was the first one that did not need the full 8mg strip? I do believe subs is great for people that need it for heroin addiction or taking alot more pills than I have (6-8 vics/day) sometimes even less. When I was working it was probably 4-5 which was what was prescribed, since I'm layed off, yes I increased.

I have been doing ok so far. Yes I get thoughts when I'm tired or low energy. But I try to keep busy. 2mg is what I tried on the last day I took it, did help exept for my pain, which is making me go through advil like water now.

These docs should really have to take a course for at least a year to be certified so they can study the differences in people.

Author: tearj3rker
Posted: 04/25 09:04 PM

Did anyone's doctors ask them questions about how many times they'd relapsed before going on Suboxone? Did any doctor suggest to them that they should at least once try to stay clean using non-pharma methods before resorting to maintenance?

Back on the Subs, more comfortable now!
Author: snuggles252
Posted: 04/26 10:30 PM

Red Velvet- glad to hear you are doing good without the Subs! I hope you are staying strong, glad to see you are still checking in, I was wondering about you.
My update: At my one week check up, I told my doctor I wanted off! My plan was to continue to wean and use only when I felt w/d symptoms. I quit, thinking it would be fine since I had only been on 8-9 days at that point. I stopped for 2 days and my system went into complete shock! I was in w/d every morning, agitated all day even after taking 4mg of Subs to help with the symptoms. I was back up to 4mg twice a day and STILL feel w/d signs every morning, and I have been feeling ups and downs all day.
I just saw the doctor today and he is increasing me to 4mg every 8 hours. I thought I could just be done with it, but I was very wrong. I started craving again, but did not cheat. I had an emotional breakdown today and just had to accept that I needed the Sub for now, and that it was OK. I was telling myself that being on the Subs was not a "full recovery" so I convinced myself that I just didn't need them, that and the $200 out of pocket every visit with the doctor and therapist! I am out of work, and feel like a drain on my family, but I have to take care of me now.
I am submitting to the fact that I need help and the doctor knows best right now. I can think about weaning once things are stabilized. I just hope that it doesn't make it harder to come off of Subs if I stay on them for 2-3 months like the doctor wants....

Author: donewithitall
Posted: 04/27 08:50 AM

Hi All,
I have been on Suboxone for since April 3rd. I had been taking 3 lortabs and 3 daulidad per day. I had taken it for 3 years, I was having severe back pain and went to a pain management specialist. So that helped until I started having mroe severe attacks on my back that took me out of work for days and I missed an entire week one time. So I wound up having a scan of my back and that's when all hell broke loose.
After getting back to the dr, the scan showed a tumor inside my left kidney, it wasn't my back at all, it was CANCER. I lost everything in those moments of being told it's a 95% chance it's cancer. So he sent me to a Urologist and he done some scans and it was cancer . So I had to have my whole kideny removed in October 2010 and just stayed on the pills even after the surgery , I was hooked on it how good I felt from taking them.
So this year, I decided it was time to quit, I went to the Sub Dr and he told me I needed 8mg at 3 / day. He has lost his mind, I took 4mg for 2 weeks and begin to have severe panic attacks and throwing up after the 2nd week. So I am so lost right now on what I need to do. This stuff is way too styong for me and I cannot take this stuff, I cut to about 1/16th of the film about 5 days ago. It relieves the w/d's but I stress stress out to the point of making myself sick as hell, I think it's from the Sub but I am not doctor so I'm not certain but he wants me at 8mg 3/day and that isn't gonna happen anytime soon.
I have seen the Sub do wonders for some and that is great but its not for me so what to do ? I haven't taken anything, I put in my head I was stopping the pills and did. I flushed the 180 daulidads and 100 Lortabs so going back to that is not an option that I would do anyone. But I am starting to miss work for feeling so bad, its like the flu or something but I am scared to death to take something for that to make me feel better. I had to take off work today because I am stressed out , I called the Dr about the stress and they said nobody they have ever had in treatment has my side effects but I think they are incorrect after reading this site
Any help would greatl be appreaciated ! I am so lost in what to do at this point since I am at less than 1mg total / day because I cannot take this.... From suboxforum.com