coming down from 4 mg. of suboxone
coming down from 4 mg. of suboxone
Posted: 04/12 10:02 AM
Hi Everyone, My name is Rachel L. and I have been on suboxone a couple of years, about 4 months ago I got down to 4mg from 8mg. At one time I was on 16mg but I suffered an ileus partially from a blood pressure medication that was constipating and the high dose of sub. It was awful- my intestines shut down & they put a plastic tube thru my nose to my stomach and I couldn't have anything but ice chips for four days as the pump pulled out all the stuff in my stomach.They dropped me to 8mg of suboxone and I did not even notice the difference at all! I thought I had really made progress getting to four but I am on the suboxone patient assistance program and get my sub for free from the manufacturer-it will run out in a couple of months so i must detox further. I cannot afford suboxone. I read from posts that detoxing is pretty easy until you get to 1mg and then it sounds like that last mg. is tricky. Some people take .25 mg for thirty days before jumping to zero- some people take .125 mg before jumping to zero. It sounds that in both cases that the person feels like they have a cold from what I read, day three being the worst but after 6 days or a week that you begin to feel normal. I am just paraphrasing what I read from other posts and would appreciate any feedback on a dosing plan to detox off suboxone. If you have gotten off sub please share with me how you did it. I go to 12 step meetings NA and you cannot discuss stuff like this there. I will have 6 months clean on the 27th of April. I am almost done with step 6. This is the longest I have been clean in 38 years and everyone at the meetings notices a real change. I am learning that the world doesn't revolve around me and have come to accept that I cannot control my drug use. I rely on a higher power who I call God to guide me and do what other people with long term clean time suggests. I never really tried working the steps before and also never stayed clean before so I am serious about recovery. Suboxone is tool to me and it has been helpful. I do not feel my sub when I take it as some people say they do; so I would like to be free of it and think that I have a strong enough network where I do not need suboxone to keep me off opiates. It is just a long way to zero it seems! Any suggestions would be appreciated! Thank you and God bless! rachelliss
Sorry no one else contacted you.
Posted: 04/26 10:11 PM
Truly, can you beg the manufacturer for a cost reduction in your suboxone? It sounds like you are one that should be on medication for the disease of drug addiction, and that means for life. I find that if you have cravings, or any thought, any thought that you will be on drugs again, find a way to stay on the suboxone.
As for not being able to. You need to taper right now. Everyone has different w/d from opiates. And it is an opiate you are still on. I am suffering quite a bit I am down to 2mg and have been reducing a mg. every week. I am taking clonidine and it is a life saver for the detox. It helps the insomnia, the burning of my nerve endings and all the other reactions I am getting.
Exercise is a must. It hurts get the endorphin going. All these are posted. Sounds like you read a bit of what is here. Every taper and final withdrawal will be different. But, compared to a demerol which I was on w/d this is nothing. You could taper off within the time you have of medication. You will be taking less and less which gives you extras, but you have to do it. Not fall back on taking more.
Have other things I use to detox. It is all about knowing you won't fall back ever. If there is a question it is all over you will be back, and what will happen this time while using. Suboxone is the answer to the hell of addiction disease. I am fortunate that I have been finally placed on a nonnarcotic for pain and don't need the suboxone any longer. As you get lower on this medicine, all your sensations come back and the fog lifts.
Good luck. I truly believe that the w/d is worse depending on the damage you have done to yourself during your abuses. I was on mediation for 18 years due to a car accident. I am having a rough time, but clonidine is a must. Good luck please contact me if you need any other information or just support.
Posted: 04/27 03:16 AM
I, too, must apologize that your post went w/o a reply for so long. I don't know how it got lost or slipped through the cracks, but I'll admit it does happen sometimes.
The general guideline (from Dr. Junig) for tapering (once the person is at low doses) is to reduce by 10%, giving your body plenty of time to stabilize at each new dose before dropping again.
britianyann - you said you're suffering pretty badly right now and are on 2 mg and dropping by 1 mg every week. That's a VERY fast taper and in my opinion that's why you are suffering so badly. I would say your body is trying to tell you to slow it down. Do you have some kind of deadline that you need to be off suboxone by? If not, you might want to consider dropping your dose in smaller increments and not dropping quite so often. Doing it slower won't only help your acute withdrawals, but it also should help you when it comes to post-acute withdrawals (PAWS) - and some people say that's even worse than the acute w/d!
In general, a long, slow taper is the best way to stop sub treatment. The people on this forum that I've "watched" go off sub after years on it did it slowly and calmly and ended up barely feeling any withdrawals at all. It IS possible. Just listen to your body and take your time. Plus, the way I see it, it has to be better for our bodies to do a slow wean off any medication than to stop it too soon or too drastically. Oh and lastly, don't EXPECT it to be horrible. The more we anticipate the worst, the more that's exactly what we get. It seems to be the people who obsess over every little w/d symptom end up having the hardest time overall.
This goes way beyond my two cents (more like fifty cents) LOL. I hope some of this will help you out. Good luck to both of you on your tapers!
Posted: 04/29 03:17 PM
Hello rachelliss...I'd just like to offer a little delayed welcome to the forum also. I just read your story that you wrote in the "Have you tried to get high on opioids while on sub" thread. You have sure been through a lot!
It looks like you have found the liquid taper thread...that has helped a lot of people taper down, using very small doses at the end. I'm sure this forum will help you in addition to the NA meetings you are attending, since you cannot discuss some of these things there. Congratulations on your 6 months clean!!
Dropping dose by 10%
Posted: 05/02 06:05 PM
Hey there, good post and good info, Hatmaker in furtherance to what you stated above, Dr Junig's drop down is
reducing the dose 10% PER WEEK, some might misunderstand that they can drop off by reducing 10% per day and those people will be in an agonizing state of WD. I am partially in the same group above as I will be losing cobra benefits health insurance but I have been told my income is low enough to possibly go on medicaid when cobra runs
out. SOX is the only meds I take and I have adapted well to being on it after kind of a rough start as I didnt tolerate it very well to start out and I followed the dosing rules, i.e waiting to go off real opiates 48+ hours, dropping down my opiate tolerance to 30mg a day or less to match up using a 4mg per day SOX regimen. I am now on month # 6 of suboxone treatment after years of opiate addiction and have fluxed a little between 2-4 mg per day and also had to change doctors after being "excused" from the first doctor due to a relapse using low dose valium to counter the extreme insomnia which i still have but luckily i set my own work hours now.
Thanks to Dr J for this site, it is loaded with knowledgable posters and very good personal experiences.
Posted: 05/02 07:15 PM
In NA where I'm from, most people who were open about being on "drug replacement" were advised to work the steps again once they get off Suboxone / methadone. I can see some merit behind this.
In many ways, we become different people once we are off drug replacement therapy. I found that I reacted to things differently, I had a different outlook, and I viewed my past differently. In many ways I was a different person. Most significant of all, a fair bit of what I did while I was on Suboxone became a blur. It's weird, but for me it was like my memories I make while on Sub are in their own filing cabinet, and it's harder to access them once I was off opioids completely. I'm not alone in this - some others on the forum have said similar things - ie memories of the period while on Sub are a bit fuzzy.
It's because of this that many people, at least down here, choose to work the steps again once they're clean off all opioids.
It's up to you whether or not you choose, in the months or even years down the road, to open up to the fellowship about starting your clean time on Sub. You may even desire to adjust your clean time to fit in with the NA doctrine - ie first clean day = first day off Sub.
Thank you from Rachel coming off 4mg
Posted: 05/04 06:42 PM
I just want to thank everyone for all the valuable information that you have provided to me from my initial post of coming off 4mg. I am now on 3mg and proceeding slowly. I am still attending NA meetings and am on Step 8. I was just commenting today on how foggy my thinking was to my boyfriend because he asked me where my car registration was. It came when my liscense was suspended and I was on morphine ( a lot of morphine like 500mg). I had someone tell me that when they got off suboxone that they found their memory was a bit foggy but I am sure it was nothing like 500mg of morphine foggy. I have gotten a good amount of feedback and helpful suggestions including using clonidine. I will find out hopefully for myself if suboxone had clouded my memory; I believe it is certainly possible. I do not feel like it is now but I do not remember what its like to be drug free including sub. This is as clean as I have been since I was 15.
I am on three blood pressure meds but my blood pressure was 174/116 or similar on several reading so Dr. Sy put me on clonidine. I take .1mg twice a day and my blood pressure decreased to 136/88 or 138/95 a significant improvement. The pharmacist told me not to stop taking it abrubtly- I hope everyone taking it knows that it causes a rebound effect where your blood pressure can skyrocket if abrubtly discontinued. I could swear when I took it that I was calmer but that could just be in my head.
I plan to stay in NA and keep working their steps that they have in a step writing guide; when I am answering questions in the step writing guide it keeps my mind off of worrying and keeps me grateful. My head is a very dangerous place to be in; I am certain that left to my own devices I am hell bent on self destruction. In my addiction I was really miserable and suicidal in the end. I know the week in the county jail without my meds before they gave me a small amount of valium was so intensely miserable that I could not stand to be in my own skin coming off 8mg sub and 8mg of clonazapam and alcohol. I was a mess and had to beg for some clean pants after I soiled mine and sat there for hours in those nasty pants. The slab had a pad that was like the chicago tribune to sleep on on top of steel slab and I had bruises because I was so thin, my hip bones and my knees. The food was practicly inedible. It is almost as though they went through trouble to make it less palatable. I was freezing and they would not provide another blanket. You could not make phone calls unless someone bought $30 of phone time. I called Rich collect and that was my one three minute collect call. I couldnt call out collect to anyone. I knew then and there that anything that caused me to end up in such condition in such a place had to go. I was finally willing to surrender and be serious about it. Hell, looking back on it I believe it was the best thing that could have happened to me because before that suboxone was just another drug to use. I used it in between my morphine runs. I got thirty 100mg morphine capsules each month and went through them licketly split. I should have been doing things like scrimping and saving and my court cases would have been over sooner. There is a million "i could ofs....."
I just want to tell everyone who has replied to my post thank you. I appreciate all your feedback and am so glad that I stumbled upon this site. I hope some day to be able to post here when I am off of suboxone and share my experience, strength and hope! Thank you all so much! I still have a lot of reading to do but every post is a gift.
I know many of you have been through a lot worse things and many of you may still be struggling with addiction. You are in my prayers. I hope it does not take you 38 years to realize that an addict can never control their using and addiction is slow suicide. Since I have been clean I have been able to pay a $800 credit card bill that I had gotten forging a check from my parents account. My mother is not only speaking with me she will come up and stay with me on the 15th while she is in town to take care of my handicapped sister's medical needs. I have gotten my driving privleges back which I never appreciated until I lost them for 14months. I have to do 75 hours of treatment but hell, things could be worse. I will worry about paying for the classes and the $1000 fine and two yrs of probation one day at a time. I like how someone called themselves a dopeless hopefiend. That is what I am today.
Thank you for all your posts and I wish everyone serenity and recovery.
Rachel Liss... From suboxforum.com