Didn't get my 5-year chip because of Sub
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Posted: 12/01 12:47 PM
Good to hear from you again.
I was just talking to my wife about the 'thought to drug' thing last night. Used to be an instant reaction, if I thought about my DOC I was soon on my way to finding it.
Nowadays, it's like my brakes finally work again. I have had very, very little craving, but when I do I am able to think it through to the end and I'm not cool with going back there ever again.
Author: dirty nj
Posted: 12/04 06:33 AM
Congrats !!! That is great 5yrs wow. I have just started Suboxone in Sept and it has been a blessing. I too have had problems with NA. I believe im sober and boy did I get the look as if I just shot dope before coming to the meeting. Anyway you sound like your doing great. That is so awesome you got that much time clean. Wish you many more. ( dirty nj )
Posted: 12/04 01:20 PM
I too congratulate you on 5 years sober! That is amazing and you should be very proud of yourself for achieving such an accomplishment. I also think it is wonderful that you were honest because in that process, you helped the young man who was afraid to speak up and say anything.
I have said it before and will say it again that since development of suboxone, and in anticipation of more medications assisted recovery options in the future, they must develop some kind of new program for us. A program that deals with starting sub, changing your lifestyle, tapering, decisions to taper, etc. There are a variety of tools from NA/AA that are absolutely beneficial. But I do think the religious part of it could be lesser since the medications reduce the level of desperation one experiences going cold turkey without assistance. I don't have to pray to an imaginary being as my only option these days. No offense to the religious but I am an atheist so for me...that is all it is and it makes you feel a little hopeless to walk into a meeting only to realize it relies on this imaginary being. There is no comfort in that. I think there is something to be said for a spirituality component or meditation, etc. I just think there needs to be a shift for those who have chosen medication assisted recovery.
For those of you required to attend......I am SO sorry. My doctor normally requires NA/AA attendance. I excaped that by going to therapy (infrequently at best these days) and by working out. Since I have never had a dirty UA, she thinks I am different. I don't know that I agree with that entirely, but I am more than happy to ride that train in order to get out of the meetings that would seriously be a total waste of time in my opinion.
We are here for you and can certainly celebrate your five years! So congratulations and I hope you do start a meeting in your area.
Posted: 12/04 07:14 PM
My feeling is that one's clean time is between them and their HP. Only you and HP really know. If your house is in order, and you have worked the program while on suboxone, take your coin or whatever, you've earned it. If anyone tries to tell you otherwise, calmly tell them to kiss your ass and worry about themselves!
Posted: 12/09 05:00 AM
|moman wrote: |
|My feeling is that one's clean time is between them and their HP. Only you and HP really know. |
This is exactly what I've been told and I totally agree. The philosophy works pretty well because, typically, we are our harshest critics.
I've been very fortunate to find an NA home group that is accepting of my Suboxone therapy. I've also found acceptance with many AAs. That's not to say that I haven't heard the rantings of those against replacement therapy. Who could miss their presence? They tend to be so loud... and tend to sound so very angry (which makes me question how well they have incorporated the steps into their lives).
Starting a Sub-friendly meeting is an awesome idea. I wish you all the best and I congratulate you on all your clean time.
Posted: 12/09 06:07 AM
When you think about it, *everyone* is accepted at their word about their "clean time". I agree completely about the loudmouthed zealots. They seem to either be folks who failed on ORT, or simply idiots with no experience.
Posted: 02/10 06:34 AM
Seems I assumed you're male in my post. My mistake.
So by dude, I mean dudess.
And by hooker, I mean.. gigolo.
12 step program and replacement therapy.
Posted: 03/17 07:31 AM
I am a big AA/na person myself. I dont collect keychains since I am on sub. THis does not mean that I dont belong in the meetings... the only requirement for membership is the desire to live drug/etoh free, am I right?
I dont understand why the author of this thread is upset at all... after five yrs in the program and being as active as you are I am sure you have read all the pamphlets the program puts out... let me show you one.
Home > Information about NA > Bulletin #29
WORLD SERVICE BOARD OF TRUSTEES BULLETIN #29
Regarding Methadone and Other
Drug Replacement Programs
This bulletin was written by the World Service Board of Trustees in 1996. It represents the views of the board at the time of writing.
Not all of us come to our first NA meeting drug free. Some of us were uncertain about whether recovery was possible for us and initially came to meetings while still using.
Others came to their first meetings on drug replacement programs such as methadone and found it frightening to consider becoming abstinent.
One of the first things we heard was that NA is a program of complete abstinence and "The only requirement for membership is the desire to stop using." Some of us, upon hearing these statements, may have felt that we were not welcome at NA meetings until we were clean. But NA members reassured us that this was not the case and we were encouraged to "keep coming back." We were told that through listening to the experience, strength, and hope of other recovering addicts that we too could find freedom from active addiction if we did what they did.
Many of our members, however, have expressed concern about individuals on drug replacement programs. Questions come up regarding such individuals' membership status, ability to share at meetings, lead meetings, or become trusted servants on any level. "Are these members clean?" they ask. "Can one really be a 'member' and still be using?"
Perhaps by answering the most important question first—the issue of membership—we can establish a context by which to approach this issue. Tradition Three says that the only requirement for NA membership is a desire to stop using. There are no exceptions to this. Desire itself establishes membership; nothing else matters, not even abstinence. It is up to the individual, no one else, to determine membership. Therefore, someone who is using and who has a desire to stop using, can be a member of NA.
Members on drug replacement programs such as methadone are encouraged to attend NA meetings. But, this raises the question: "Does NA have the right to limit members participation in meetings?" We believe so. While some groups choose to allow such members to share, it is also a common practice for NA groups to encourage these members (or any other addict who is still using), to participate only by listening and by talking with members after the meeting or during the break. This is not meant to alienate or embarrass; this is meant only to preserve an atmosphere of recovery in our meetings.
Our Fifth Tradition defines our groups' purpose: to carry the message that any addict can stop using and find a new way to live. We carry that message at our recovery meetings, where those who have some experience with NA recovery can share about it, and those who need to hear about NA recovery can listen. When an individual under the influence of a drug attempts to speak on recovery in Narcotics Anonymous, it is our experience that a mixed, or confused message may be given to a newcomer (or any member, for that matter) For this reason, many groups believe it is inappropriate for these members to share at meetings of Narcotics Anonymous.
It may be argued that a group's autonomy, as described in our Fourth Tradition, allows them to decide who may share at their meetings. However, while this is true, we believe that group autonomy does not justify allowing someone who is using to lead a meeting, be a speaker, or serve as a trusted servant. Group autonomy stands only until it affects other groups or NA as a whole. We believe it affects other groups and NA as a whole when we allow members who are not clean to be a speaker, chair a meeting, or be a trusted servant for NA.
Many groups have developed guidelines to ensure that an atmosphere of recovery is
maintained in their meetings. The following points are usually included:
•Suggesting that those who have used any drug within the last twenty-four hours refrain from sharing, but encouraging them to get together with members during the break or after the meeting.
•Abiding by our fellowship's suggested clean time requirements for service positions.
•Seeking meeting leaders, chairpersons, or speakers who help further our primary purpose of carrying the message to the addict who still suffers.
We make a distinction between drugs used by drug replacement programs and other prescribed drugs because such drugs are prescribed specifically as addiction treatment. Our program approaches recovery from addiction through abstinence, cautioning against the substitution of one drug for another. That's our program; it's what we offer the addict who still suffers. However, we have absolutely no opinion on methadone maintenance or any other program aimed at treating addiction. Our only purpose in addressing drug replacement and its use by our members is to define abstinence for ourselves.
Our fellowship must be mindful of what kind of message we are carrying if a still-using addict leads a meeting, or becomes a trusted servant. We believe that under these circumstances we would not be carrying the Narcotics Anonymous message of recovery. Permissiveness in this area is not consistent with our traditions. We believe our position on this issue reinforces our recovery, protects our meetings, and supports addicts in striving for total abstinence.
Note: This bulletin addresses the use of methadone maintenance as a drug replacement strategy. It is not addressing the medicinal use of methadone as a pain killer. We encourage those who have concerns about the use of methadone in pain management to refer to Narcotics Anonymous pamphlet, In Times of Illness.
IN posting this ... by no means am I judging one that chooses sub. I myself choose sub. I just couldnt face another wd so I choose maintance treatment. I choose sub over methadone only due to how much easier it is. Not to go daily to a clinic... I only go monthly. NOt that the office I go to is a "safe" place to hang out.. it for sure is not. I just dont understand how the author of the thread can be so upset. I never remember being in any meeting that condone replacement tx... I never hear anything against it either. It just that there has to be a clear cut line somewhere. And its clear and always has been clear that NA/ AA goal is to be drug free
Just because modern medicine comes up with another replacement treatment the 12 step program IMHO should not change thier beliefs.
Posted: 03/17 07:36 AM
bottom line IMHO.... yoiur clean time is between you and your maker. If to you being on sub is being clean then in your eyes your clean. It dosnt matter what others think. They do not pay your bills or live your life. So why walk away from a progame that teaches us how to live without the dope. Take what you can use and leave the rest behind.
Just dont expect the program to bend thier position for you or anyone that chooses BMT or MMT.
Posted: 03/17 07:58 AM
|birdie wrote: |
|bottom line IMHO.... yoiur clean time is between you and your maker. If to you being on sub is being clean then in your eyes your clean. It dosnt matter what others think. They do not pay your bills or live your life. So why walk away from a progame that teaches us how to live without the dope. Take what you can use and leave the rest behind. |
Just dont expect the program to bend thier position for you or anyone that chooses BMT or MMT.
I completely understand why they OP was upset and she has every right to be. What I don't understand is how you can't see that.
You said, "Why walk away from a program that teaches us to lives without the dope...just don't expect the program to bend their position for you...". If the program isn't consistent with a person's beliefs and how they define clean time, it's up to that person to walk away if they choose and I can understand why. I don't see why they would be questioned for walking away. It appears that you don't expect the program to "bend" their position, but rather for her to "bend" her position. I find that quite inconsistent. I know she still attends a different "sub-group", so to speak, of the 12-step program that does not frown upon replacement therapy and that works for her. In fact I believe she started her particular group up. I say kudos to her and I hope she's not bothered by your post. Again, I completely understand why she was upset.... From suboxforum.com