Didn't get my 5-year chip because of Sub
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Didn't get my 5-year chip because of Sub
Posted: 11/24 10:10 AM
Another thread made me really want to bring up my recent experience.
I'm in recovery for major alcoholism. I drank up to a gallon of vodka a day at my worst and I'm 110 lbs. I was very bad!! So, as I've stated on this board, I was started on Sub after I had an accident, the point being to avoid Oxy or other very addictive drugs. Not all that unreasonable, actually, if you consider the extent of my drinking. I don't doubt that I could have ended up an opiate addict, basically to replace one drug with another.
Well, we moved recently, and I've been struggling to find my new 'home' group. I've always done meetings and had commitments, mainly in Dual Recovery Anonymous because you can discuss things like Sub there. We have no DRA group here. So, I've been trying AA and NA. This is a tiny town. I found a 12-step NA meeting that gives chips 1 X per month and started going. People were nice. I decided to share about my Sub use. For me, I have to be able to be honest in a meeting for it to be worth it. That's the whole point of a meeting!! I knew the Sub may be a deal-breaker because I've been through that before in NA and AA...basically people pulling me aside after meetings and letting me know that until I get off Sub, I'll never be truly sober, never be able to feel reality enough to work the steps thoroughly, etc.
I also shared that my sobriety b-day was coming up. My 5-year b-day, actually. That's a big one!! I saw a lot of looks exchanged. I saw some eye rolling. Of course, it hurt a bit, KWIM? The secretary and a few others came over to me after the meeting and it was just very bad. Bad enough that I'm not going back. I found out that I'm actually NOT sober!! I need to get sober by getting off Sub and then come back and identify as a newcomer. They went on the whole, "I knew this guy who just decided to quit Sub at 16 mg and he hung in there and came to meetings and did fine so we'll introduce you", and "you just switched addictions" and those same, predictable sorts of stories. When I am finally 'ready to get sober', they want me to call them for any support I may need.
Only.....I do not buy this AT ALL!! I have not been high. Suboxone does not, in my book, count as using drugs or losing my sobriety and it never will. Even though they said that they would not refuse me my chip if my conscience led me to decide to take it, I don't want their chip. My 5-year sobriety date was yesterday. I don't feel bad that I couldn't get my chip and my cake. My family and friends are very proud of me. I am weaning off Sub, but it's not because I feel guilty about taking it. If I was an opiate addict, I would take it for the rest of my life and feel like doing so was making a smart decision. I've known hundreds of people (through running DRA groups) who have gone onto Sub and their lives are all the testimony needed to show how miraculous it is for an opiate addict who starts it. I also have known opiate addicts who came to my DRA meetings and felt guilty about the Sub and that led them to quit taking it. Guess what? I'm racking my brain and I cannot think of one of them who continued coming to meetings. Not one!!!! They just fell off the planet.
In the next six months, I plan on making a trip to my old meeting and I'll get my chip and my cake. More importantly, I think I would like to start a DRA meeting here. It's not hard. The info's all on their website. I'm proud of myself for not letting the 'sage' advice of all-knowing 'old-timers' shake me. When I was new to sobriety, I saw those people almost as gods or something. Now, I have God in my heart guiding me.
So...happy birthday to me (yesterday)! That is, if you do consider it a birthday when you're on Sub. I DO!!
Posted: 11/24 11:23 AM
Dang it, I've been trying for 15 minutes to insert this picture into this reply so you can have your chip, but I couldn't get it to work...sorry.
F*** them bozo's who say you don't get your chip, that's so petty.
Edited- I fixed the picture for you. Sorry it's kinda small, that was the only one I could grab off the website you linked. doaq.
Posted: 11/24 12:14 PM
Posted: 11/24 01:11 PM
Oh man thats realy shitty that they said that stuff to you, I honestly think I wouldnt of been able to stay composed because Im very proud of myself for how Ive done and I would of told them "to take that stupid little chip and shove it up their bible thumpin asses". Im all for someone that can do well in AA/NA with complete absitnence but I cant and Im not gonna feel bad for it. Excuse my terminology here but I have no problem with god but Im not gonna be like almost every person in AA who gets out of bed every morning and gives god a blowjob and I dont believe getting on my knees and praying will keep me clean either. Staying on subox or methadone and making a commitment to change is what works for me, not following "the steps". I cant stand NA/AA and am forced to go right now and cant wait till I dont have to anymore. The part that bugs me the most is they have the "one size fits all" approach meaning that if you want to get clean you must attend 12 step meetings or else nope you wont stay clean without meetings and you will fail. Every time someone tells me if i dont attend meetings I will go back to using undoubtedly I want to punch them in their face.
Wow, so that's why you're 'Romeo'
Posted: 11/24 01:32 PM
Romeo, thanx sooooo much. That's absolutely the nicest thing that you spent all that time doing that. It means more to get it that way than if I'd gotten it from a bunch of dumb-dumbs on high horses who didn't even think I deserved it.
Yes, it does suck sometimes at meetings. I've gone for so long that I guess it doesn't surprise me much. There ARE good meetings. You just have to look for them. The one I used to be the secretary of was fantastic. But it was DRA, and we made it clear that we all had to use or had at one time used meds. Nobody ever got jumped on. People used to always be so grateful that they finally had somewhere that they could talk about everything.
It's rough trying to go up against a bunch of guys like that when they have the know everything "Group Think" mentality. You kinda know beforehand that there's nothing you can say that they won't write off as a dope fiend defending their drug, so it's no use arguing. They do not intimidate me. A lot of those people are addicted to meetings and feeling powerful and righteous.
The upside was that after this informative conversation with the all-knowing leaders, a kid, well young guy, came up and we talked and talked. He is on Sub and we exchanged numbers. He couldn't believe I'd brought up Sub, lol, and said he never said anything about his Sub and that no one knows about it. AND he's gay, which I'm guessing would be really hard in this town. I think we'll become friends, if he doesn't mind hanging out with a mommy. Something good always comes out of everything.
Posted: 11/24 07:53 PM
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5 YEARS THATS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hate people like that in meetings I don't talk about my sub use in meetings and I agree that it has me holding back a lot! Your doing great keep up the good work!
Congrats on 5 yrs....
Posted: 11/25 03:32 PM
Well what a great accomplishment. I too am also an alcoholic and got sober in the rooms of AA. I had a great home group and a real hard ass old timer for a sponsor. I went to a lot of meetings before I felt comfortable with this one....
Well I moved a way for awhile and recently moved back. I was accepted back with no issues and then recently I told my sponsor the same one from the very beginning 4 yrs and 9 mos ago that I have been taking suboxone. Now early in my sobriety I broke my ribs and had to take pain meds. I talked to him about this and he said medicine is always between you and your doctor.....we have no opinion on that. But when I tell him about suboxone he tells me I need to find a new sponsor....just like that. I was probably stunned as you were. Some of them guys are such pompous asses but it is the only game in town. The next meeting I was at my sponsor led the meeting and he said in front of everyone that my new job was to pass out the chips and to grab one for myself each day I continue to take sub. Others have made snide remarks to me and I definitely can tell the difference. One of the side effects I have is pin prick pupils (I hate this).
Like you I am so done with AA......they have been my home for almost 5 years. I have received some grief recently because I am tapering and considering getting off subs. I hate it that the only place that you can go to feel safe and be amongst people that are just like you passes judgment on you for taking suboxone. I hate it. There are so many arguments about the why you should or shouldn't be on suboxone and believe me I have struggled with them all. The whole thing sucks and your situation definitely sucks. That rigorous honesty bullshit is something isn't it? You wanted to be honest and instead they made you feel like shit..........Once a lady was leading a meeting and had never given out the chips before and she said "Does anyone have 2 months clean" Well it was my 2 month anniversary and I went and got my chip. I was very happy because I had never gone 60 days ever without putting something in my body. After the meeting 3 old timers came up to me and said "can we see your chip?' I showed it to them proudly and they said "This is a 3 month chip we don't give 2 month chips at this meeting" and then walked away with my chip............SOB!!!!!!!!
I was ready to quit right then and there but I didn't need a coin to remind me I was 2 months sober. I hate that happened to you and I like that you are thinking of starting your own meeting- you are very strong. I hope it works out and let us know. For me I still have some decisions to make but what everyone else does really isn't any of my business...I have to worry about me and what I think is best. Hopefully I will get the guidance I need.
Again great job on 5 years........
Posted: 11/25 08:45 PM
I'm new here but i just have to say Congrats on 5 years! I had five years before my relapse and I know what an accomplishment that is. Good for you.
Ok, it's complete crap what they said to you. You know it. we know it. I think that was awesome of Romeo to attach that chip for you. You deserve it.
What ReRaise said about his experience, his sponsor abandoned him? Unbelievable. I have a really hard time with this kind of black/white thinking and ignorance. IGNORANCE!!
I'm living with the ignorance as well. I have been on methadone 2.5 years and am getting read to swtich to bupe hopefully Saturday. Altho now that I am off methadone 3 days and I feel a cloud has been lifted off of my emotions (yep, crying over nothing!) I do know that I was not high when on it. Blunted is really more like it, less motivated than my usual type A personality. And I know I have been in recovery for 2.5 years. I have been stable. I also think I will feel even better on the bupe. and I am not going to let anyone tell me otherwise.
So....I am sorry for your experience. I just don't talk about it to many people. It's not worth it.
Posted: 11/29 04:36 AM
Dude... I HEAR YOU!
I've been there. I could say a lot about 12 step programs and their lies. At one stage my sponsor (my city's biggest NA "guru") told me that if I worked the steps, I would be cured of my bipolar.
So I worked the steps, went off my meds at 7 months clean. And guess what! I lost mah frikkin marbles. Ended up paranoid, depressed, contemplating ending my own life .. then chose the "easier softer way" and relapsed (bah).
Anyway, it really sounds to me like you need some 12-step DE-BRAINWASHING. Penn & Teller do a great job of it. Check this out. You won't miss your 5 year tag.
Take all the money you'd put into your NA tin over a year, buy yourself some cheap Nescafe, some long life milk, some brown sugar and some plastic cups. Spend the rest on a hooker. Same chance of staying clean as NA. Infinitely more satisfying.
edit: link fix
tearj3rker, that's so disturbing
Posted: 12/01 11:30 AM
I've seen people at meetings give out medical advice like what was given to you. People who have zero experience with psych meds or emotional/psychiatric disorders. This INFURIATES me!!!! It's so wrong, especially when someone new comes in to a meeting and is surrounded by the "old-timers" who seem to knows everything and have such sage advice. I've had friends who are truly bipolar. Absolutely normal when taking their meds.....unrecognizable...even scary... if they don't take them. One of my friends stopped her meds during her pregnancy and she was someone completely different than who I knew. She would stay up for weeks on end. She seemed to be on drugs, except the trouble was she was NOT on her drugs.
There's a lot of chatter about how over-diagnosed psych disorders are, and that may be true to a degree, but they exist nonetheless. I can't imagine telling someone they don't have a disorder that a doctor has diagnosed them with. I can't imagine telling them to discontinue medication. If that person went and killed themselves or someone else because they abruptly quit their meds on my encouragement, which then caused them to suffer a psychiatric episode, I'd surrender myself to the police.
I love being sober at this point and it is the only way to be. I used to say that to people at meetings who were really miserable and newly sober. It's hard at first, but give it time and you'll be so much happier. Getting time under my belt has given me one huge advantage. I used to think about using (which was drinking for me) and then before I knew it I had bought my booze and was drinking and going "why did I do this?!" After some time being sober, well actually, after a number of relapses that were very frustrating, a window emerged between the thinking and the doing. So, when booze crossed my mind, I reflected on all that I'd suffered and lost or almost lost because of booze, and I had the time to realize I didn't want to go that route. Now, it's become so normal that I have to say I don't think about drinking because I don't WANT to drink. I REALLY DON'T!!! It's funny because I remember thinking that I could never go a month, let alone 5 years, without having a sip of alcohol.
After getting sober the final time, I used antibuse. It was my insurance policy while I developed that window of reason. Sub is like antibuse for opiate addicts. We all know in our hearts that we don't take Sub to get high. It may be physically addictive, sure, but it's not a 'getting loaded' drug. It's a recovery drug, like methadone. Chinagirl, I love your attitude. You have been STABLE. That is the key to rebuilding your life. You have been sober. I second what you said about not letting anyone tell you differently!
All that ultimately matters is the honesty of the relationship that we have with ourselves and (IMO) our higher power. Other people's opinions are their problems.
laddertipper... From suboxforum.com